Gege Blog 11.1 Engine A is back from Italy (f) .pdf



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Gege Blog English –

11.1 - ENGINE A is back to Bruxelles - Le moteur A est de retour à Bruxelles

Thursday 4 April 2013
Michel sent the crate with the engine on Tuesday the 2nd, it arrived at my place on Thursday. It's been almost a year
since we started dismantling this engine... A quick phone call to André so that he can come and help me to put it in
the garage. While waiting for him to come, I start to put some water on the tracab Traction Cabriolet (shamefully
dirty) that I had to take out of the garage, but my chamois leather is out of order, and I only make the problem
worse... Never mind, I'll do that later!

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André finishes his phone call, and we start to bring the over 100 kg box in.

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It's strong (made in China), the crowbar comes into action, it is unfortunately not screwed but nailed ... .

.

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We start to discover the machine ::

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and all the parts that go with it:

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It's beautiful:

:

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André goes to work (I'm on spring break, long live teaching), I finally decide to strip and repaint the "straps" that
block the apertures to the brushes of the dynamo and the starter:

I also stripped the screws fixing the magneto, the starter cover, the fan base:

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View of the dynamo housing which engages directly with a fork on a washer at the end of the crankshaft:

:

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I present the dynamo,

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… push it until the fork hits the washer, turn the pulley to engage, and it engages by itself:.

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There is a centring pin on the dynamo body, which is housed in the cover::

Grease on the screws,

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and I fix the cover without tightening it too much, so as not to break it, or the distribution cover (which has been
resoldered by Michel).

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Installation of the studs of the fan foot

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…and fixing of the foot: the two pulleys are perfectly in the axis, bravo Michel (and Gerard ...)

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Installation of the strap freshly repainted :

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installing the shunt

:
It's not bad !

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,

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The starter remains to be installed, it is also positioned thanks to a centring pin: ,

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Installing the strap:.

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.

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There I realize that I don't have the strap that fixes the starter to the aluminium casing, I don't remember having
seen it in a box, if we don't find it, Michel will make a new one based on the photos taken at the Citroën
conservatory...

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I take one of the flywheels, it will take a petrol bath until tomorrow to remove the sludge:

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I also present the magneto which will be used

with the collection of flanges and the new “flector” ( flexible coupling ), the reassembling will be for tomorrow, and it
will not be easy to time in the absence of marking of the TDC on the flywheel !

11
Saturday 06 April 2013
As usual, it wasn't "tomorrow",( ???) I was busy with something else. Well, let's get to work, and what I'm going to
do first is not my cup of tea!

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Once again, I have to clean some parts : the starter retaining strap (found at André's place ...) . Stripping with a
cutter, petrol, an iron brush, acetone, then painting and fitting .

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.
..André had sent some "extra" bolts to Michel who degreased them, but it came back in bulk, and already rusty.

.

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I start with the nylon brush on a drill, but it's not going well, there's too much rust and I'm fed up! Then, for the
great evils the great remedies, I'm going to de-rust all this with hydrochloric acid (spirit of salt) in the kitchen sink (to
be done only when you're alone!); in 15 minutes it's good:

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. . Rinsing:

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and I go to the garage before it re-rusts (and it goes very fast!). So immediate brushing,

,
and the result : .

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But it's become a puzzle since it's not in the little annotated bags anymore, so I sort by gender, hoping to find my

way through ...

...

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Here's the oil-suction tube, what's it doing there? But Michel reassured me, he made a new one a little bit longer,
phew !

.
Then I move on to the "heavy” stuff

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…the engine flywheel: the clutch plate and the ring gear, I'm fed up

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After cleaning, brushing, degreasing, it starts to look better

I still have to remove the bearing from the clutch plate, but I have to consult the documentation for that. I just
managed to remove the four-notch nut, I replace it temporarily, I'll take out the bearing later.

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A little coat of anthracite paint, so it won't rust anymore and it's more aesthetic:

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:

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The "mechanical" areas have obviously not been painted:

:
I replace the screws and the clutch springs (outside the flywheel on the engine block side,

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,
and not inside as the RTA says it erroneously on page 122

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,

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… an unspeakable mistake which must have already caused some strange surprises, the clutch working backwards !!!

.
It is necessary to fit them before installing the flywheel; after that there is not enough room, unless the oil pan is
removed ... I tighten the flywheel temporarily (and not completely), I will tighten it definitively and fold down the
stopper washer when I'm sure that everything is in order.

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.
I put the "bushes" back on the clutch cover :

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:

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and put it back provisionally without putting the useless disc for the moment...:

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And all this because neither the flywheel nor the ring gear bears the slightest trace of TDC or advance point! There is
just a punch mark on the aluminium housing of the block probably indicating the TDC:

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Normally we should have this on the crown:

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:

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corresponding to this:

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:

( click to get enlarge image )

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So I have to mark precisely the TDC of cylinders 1 and 4

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(which should be marked on a tooth gap of the crown, in line with a bolt and also the key of the flywheel), in order
to make the marks to be able to time the flywheel correctly with the magneto. The ignition advance point is 22° on
one tooth (it seems a lot, but that's how it is ...).

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There are 154 teeth on the crown. 360/154 = 2.337° between two teeth (or tooth gaps), and 22°/2.337° = 9.41
teeth, or about 9.5 teeth.

/

The best way to locate the TDC is to remove the cylinder head (Michel had not tightened it, he had foreseen it), it is
very easy with a side-valve engine. We can see that the cylinders are already well run in ...

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It remains to punch the ignition marks and to install the magneto, but one thread of the drive fork is messed up,
and I can't find the other fork. Remained in Italy, or already taken away by André (to make room in the garage) ?...

So the rest will be for tomorrow!

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Sunday 07 April 2013
Just arrived in the garage, Alain "11AL" comes to visit me with his beautiful 11AL 36. He suggests me to go and have
a drink (in traction), but I decided to continue with the engine ... Finally, as soon as he left, I regret not having
accompanied him !

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Next time !

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...
I place the crankshaft at the TDC of cylinders 1 and 4, and I make a mark with a felt marker opposite the crown stud.
It corresponds well to the punch I had spotted on the block.

:

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To something, bad luck is good: as the crown has no coding or marking, I can put it in any position.

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And as an engine usually stops with the crankshaft "flat" (all pistons at the same height )

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the ring gear is always attacked by the starter pinion in two 180° zones that wear::

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therefore it is sufficient to place the ring gear with an intact zone at the level of the starter pinion when the

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. . It is

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crankshaft is "flat", and it will be ok for a few years:

:

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I temporarily place the clutch/gearbox cover (still dirty, but it will be ok) on the block to try to find the mark that is
supposed to be there for the timing: .

:

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With the oxidation, it is almost erased, so I punch it again (you can hardly see it on the picture).

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Then I count the 9.5 intervals corresponding to the 22° advance, and I punch the marks on the crown

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it's more visible without flash

.
I also mark these points on the flywheel, for future generations...

IC

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Since everything goes well, I remove the clutch plate to tighten the flywheel definitively (I have tightened my torque
wrench to the maximum, that is 100Nm), and I fold down the stopper washer,

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but I forgot to take the picture with the nut ... (André, you can believe me, it's there !)

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I take out the half primary shaft repaired by Michel to centre the clutch disc not very worn, and I cleaned it with
acetone

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: I check that the disc is well placed:

:

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Then I present the plate with the disc on the flywheel, the whole centred by the half axle, and I can easily fit
everything on the 6 long screws (with the clutch springs behind the flywheel please !)

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I then provisionally tighten the 6 screws with their nuts. The docs are remarkably deficient about the adjustment ... It
must not slip, and it must not be too hard ... no kidding! After thinking with Michel, I will proceed as follows: tighten
all the nuts (at this moment, there is no way to disengage the clutch of course), then loosen an equal number of
turns for each one, in order to have a correct stroke for the pedal. I have to measure the ratio of the pedal and fork
lever arms, but this can still wait, the gearbox is not yet up!

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I can now replace the cylinder head; I'll use the end of the exhaust valve closure of cylinder #4 to determine the TDC
ignition of 1. There is indeed no way to use the magneto drive fork on the block, it turns like the crankshaft ;(it's a
crowning achievement since it's driven by the camshaft, but there's an angle gear that doubles the rotation!), and
it's the magneto that does the reduction 2 to 1.
I coat the cylinder head gasket with raw linseed oil.

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…and replace the cylinder head.

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In the absence of torque indication, I tighten to 20 Nm, for fear of tearing the M8 studs from the block which seems
quite fragile at the threads. Michel has replaced the studs by new ones in class 8.8 steel, so I could tighten up to 24
Nm, but thinking that the original studs were maybe in class 5.8 so limited to 15 Nm, I choose the right balance ...

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That's it, I decide to finally place the Solex 26 AHD carburettor to make it look nice

...

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... . Strange, there are 3 joints on the pipe, I guess they were in the bag, but I put only one. Apparently, there was no
bakelite flange when I took it apart:

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:
Anyway, it's easy to modify if necessary.

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Then I want to place the spark plug leads (bright yellow, I doubt it was that colour in 1924) on the magneto's
distributor. But the threads won't fit because of the thickness of the fabric, I'll have to strip them off the holes, but
I'll place some heat shrink tubing just at the outlet to avoid the fabric to fray. And I wonder what these little tips are
for, they may clip on the spark plugs, but I don't see how the contact is made with the thread. Maybe by stripping
the end and bending the strand?

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Well, I'll continue later, anyway I have to wait for the right drive fork of the magneto, which had stayed ... in Italy!

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Monday 08 April 2013

Attempt to clean the clutch/gearbox housing with high pressure water (, Karcher), but it's not enough, we'll have it
sandblasted. In the meantime, it's not too greasy...

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Even my daughter Marie is helping !

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!

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Tuesday, April 09, 2013

Nothing is simple. Following the constructive comments on the 5HP Amicale forum, I did some research about the
position of the markings ... I put here 3 links to interesting topics on the forum:
Markings on the flywheel Marquages sur le volant
TDC markers on flywheel Repères PMH sur volant moteur
Marking on the clutch housing Repère sur carter embrayage
The position of the TDC 1 and 4 is not a problem, it certainly corresponds to the punchings on the engine and
gearbox crankcase, cylinder head removed there is no way to make a mistake. At this moment, the flywheel has a
hole for the crown wheel in front of the marks on the crankcases, and the flywheel key is on the same radius
upwards. Where it gets tricky is that the marking on the crown, when it exists, is quite twisted.

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I took a picture of a crown where you can see the original markings:

which corresponds to the equivalent picture of the RTA : ( Revue Technique Automobile : Instructions manual )

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It emerges from it that the original ALL punch stroke is well at approximately 9.5 teeth (thus 22°) of the TDC punch
stroke in line with the bolt, but what do the marks 1 and 4 under TDC mean, and the two punch strokes above the 1
and 4?

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For marks 1 and 4, it is clear: TDC of cylinders 1 and 4. But the punch marks? The TDC of 1 and 4 is obviously the
same, and these marks seem to me perfectly useless. But they are misleading, because if we count the number of
teeth between the punch stroke above 1 and the ALL stroke, we find 7.5 teeth. And 7.5 x 2.237° = 17.5°, which is a
commonly mentioned value for the advance, but which corresponds to the advance in relation to the punch mark
above the "1" struck on the crown. It appears that some crowns are also blank of punch marks, and if in this case one
bases oneself on 17.5° with respect to the "true" TDC, the advance is wrongly timed.
So these are the conclusions I came to. But I may be wrong, and the attempt to start the engine with 22° of advance
will tell us.
Nevertheless, my friend Alain Trefle 12 writes on the subject of the restoration of his car, and I quote:
"After grinding, reassembling my camshaft, and timing the ignition from 17 degrees. I guessed, I increased the
advance millimeter by millimeter with the magneto, while carrying out tests.at each timing, you're absolutely right, it
lacked the ignition advance and the 17 recommended degrees are not correct because on my car I have a lot

35
more.And indeed, as you were saying (the old ones were right) when you cranked it up...you can see that I'm on the
verge of recoil by the crank ."
I'm not the one mentioned in "you're absolutely right" and "as you said", but it does confirm my analysis.( ???? )
A document emanating from the Military Schools dating from 1922/1923 quoted in the 3rd link mentioned above by
Kronos is also interesting:
"Moment of ignition:
During combustion, the engine turns at an appreciable angle. Suppose that the spark propagation speed is 21 meters
per second, with a compression chamber such that the farthest point of the spark plug is 7 cms away from the spark
plug. The gas mixture will be ignited after : 7/2100 = 1/300 of a second.
If the engine turns at 1800 rpm, the crankshaft, which makes 30 revolutions per second, will have rotated at an angle
of : 30 / 300 x 360 = 36°

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As a result, if the gases were ignited at top dead centre, the expansion would only start after the engine had rotated
through 36° and the piston would already been down the cylinder by a significant amount.

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It is obvious that the force of the push would be greatly reduced.

To ensure that the push always starts from top dead centre, it would be necessary to give an ignition advance of 36°,
i.e. to make the spark burst 36° before the crank arms pass through the vertical position.

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In practice, it is absolutely necessary that the push starts after the top dead centre and not before, otherwise the
crankshaft would be solicited in opposite direction. We will thus take a safety margin, 11° for example, and we will
start the push 11° after the top dead centre. The ignition advance will then be reduced to 26°.

/

The usual values of the ignition advance are between 20 and 30°."

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But to compare this calculation with current advance values, one must also take into account the low compression
ratio of these engines, the convoluted shape of the chambers (side valves) and the poor and variable quality of the
petrol at the time ("heavy duty" petrol, "touring" petrol...). In fact, it was common to have a manual advance
corrector in order to be able to adapt to the variable qualities of petrol. In addition, the distributor had a centrifugal
corrector and also sometimes a vacuum corrector to increase the advance according to the engine speed and load.
On older engines, it is therefore usual to adjust the advance "by ear" from the recommended starting values, and to
block the adjustment when it starts and accelerates correctly .

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Moreover, Philippe Burnier., from the forum, has kindly given me the documents he made on this subject.
First of all the original marking on the flywheel (document in full resolution) :

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:

(Click to get enlarged image )

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(Click to get enlarged image )
and the corresponding obliquity of a connecting rod:

Then a corrected marking at 17° of advance (be careful, in my opinion it's not the correct setting !):

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:

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(Click to get enlarged image )

and the corresponding obliquity of a connecting rod:

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(Click to get enlarged image )
Wednesday, April 10th, 2013

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I received the parts sent from Italy by Michel yesterday morning! Thermo sheath, the right fork, punches (A L P M H),
washers, in short the whole thing!

!
I can only start working late, I'm not going to sleep much tonight ...
The fork with the messed up thread that I'm going to change.

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by the one on the left on these pictures ::

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I'm studying the best way to mount the ” Flector” ( flexible coupling ) in a rigorous and reliable way, using the best
original screws and washers, plus the brass ones made by Michel, which will be used to distribute the pressure of the
forks on the flector

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.
I mount the screws with strong Loctite to avoid any subsequent unscrewing :

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:

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I install the "new" fork: not easy to pass the (stainless steel) pin through !

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!
. Positioning of the “Flector “::

.#

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I present the magneto, it is perfectly in the axis and there is enough play on the fork side, there is no risk to rub

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I fix it definitively, no problem to present the screws which are underneath, mounted with lock washers.

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Checking the play at the contacts, the workshop that rewound the magneto put 0.35 mm, I guess it's ok, we'll see ... I
place the mark centred in the window by turning the axis on the contacts side:

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and I turn the flywheel until I reach the ignition point (ALL) of cylinder 1. I can then lock the fork screw on the
magneto shaft. Of course, I will check this first timing when the clutch/gearbox housing will be temporarily installed.
I take the opportunity to redo the marks with the new punches, I practice first on the flywheel,

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it bounced a bit, but it won't show, and I'll try to do better for the sprocket!

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Unpacking the spark plugs provided by André, unfortunately they are not the right ones, there is no seal and the
end is conical.

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In the batch, there was a good one, comparison:

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:
But it's all right for the wiring, I'll change them later...
And here we go, not very complicated, you just have to do it carefully to take care of the aesthetics as well as the
reliability:

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:

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Checking with the ohmmeter, everything's okay. Don't forget that the magneto distributor cover is numbered 1 2 3
4, while the ignition order is obviously 1 3 4 2, so :

Plot magnéto

1

Bougie

1

2

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3

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3

4

4

2

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There you go, that's it. The threads have been carefully measured so that everything is aligned properly, and heatshrink tubing (yellow!) placed at the ends to prevent the fabric from fraying. We're nearing the end!

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Luckily I didn't make the threads too long, here's all that's left:

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:

IC

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Monday, April 15, 2013
I replaced yesterday the clutch/gearbox cover (still not sand blasted !), trying to find the right studs, not easy !

And today, quick session to continue to prepare the (near?) future engine starting.

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First cleaning of the Guiot fuel decanter / filter, not essential ,but so nice !

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!

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This carburettor now looks like a gas factory !

!

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And André brought a nice spring to keep the throttle valve closed, to avoid the misadventure of a GMT ( Traction
Avant Forum ) forumist whose engine went crazy at the first start (courage Traction31, we're with you
wholeheartedly !!!) ...

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We also ordered Champion spark plugs D21 (hot) and D16 (colder) from A.P.I. 1557 chaussée de Wavre 1160
Bruxelles, I advertise them because they are still as efficient as ever. It is indeed not easy to find plugs with 18mm
base otherwise than by the net, and they are cheaper ...
But André also brought some old original KLG spark plugs (?), they're too worn for starting, we may try them later,
but they're demountable, it's the first time I've seen them !

48

.
We continue by disassembling the Marchal circuit breaker for checking. Filing rivets that hold the hood, tapping the
holes to re-fit it afterwards with 4x0.70 screws. It is nickel plated inside, the coils are intact, a small exterior cleaning
and painting of the cover will suffice:

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All that remains is to clean and check the starter's "foot" switch (not essential either, but it will be more fun), and the
original ammeter to test the dynamo in real operation.

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André will prepare a support for a temporary radiator, and look for a fan belt and hoses ...
Thursday, April 18, 2013

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André brought some material for lunch... A battery, 25 mm² cable, terminals, SAE 20-50 oil, the fan belt (Michel had
calculated that it should be an A27, and as usual he was right !), and Champion D21 (hot) and D16 (medium) spark
plugs. We'll see which ones are the best ...

49

And tonight I start to clean the "start switch" without disassembling it first ( laziness !) :

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:

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then I disassemble it anyway in order to check it. Everything is very clean inside, the big copper contactor which is
located between the arcs is not worn,

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but I find that the insulators are very thin

50

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... Well, it was designed like that, if it lasted 80 years, it will still hold !

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.

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I'll clean it completely and put it back together..

/

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